Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

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Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Aeromat209 on Mon May 27, 2013 2:30 am

I want to either buy a Kriss pistol or a Carbine for a SBR folding stock weapon. I understand the tax stamp wait is 6 months but wanted to buy the most economical choice for SBR . My local class III SOT said the carbine would be an easier conversion anticipating a PIA adding the Kriss folder to a pistol. I understand the Factory can do the conversion from the carbine or pistol and have sent a request for the cost differences but no word yet . Has anyone here gone through this journey and can share some insight ?

Thanks Mike
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by hkbeltfed on Mon May 27, 2013 8:21 am

That's backwards. A pistol is easier.

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Jedi380 on Mon May 27, 2013 8:24 am

There are a couple good threads here showing how to add the stock to an SDP, it doesn't look very difficult. Smile

Good Luck with your project!

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by jonj313 on Mon May 27, 2013 11:16 am

Def sdp... a do it urself project
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by MadDogDan on Mon May 27, 2013 6:22 pm

I am turning my SDP into an SBR, have three AR SBR's, one AK SBR's, and one XCR SBR and they all started life as pistols because it was much easier to add a stock when the stamp comes back then to shorten a barrel. The Kriss stock addition is a twenty minute job.

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by jonj313 on Mon May 27, 2013 9:55 pm

Yah maddogdan ... I just realized that was prob the way to go ... only half way through waiting for my stamp for my sbr ... didnt realize how long 6 months really is... plan on getting my hands on a HK SP89 next
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Jedi380 on Mon May 27, 2013 10:48 pm

It occurs to me, that it would also depend on how "short" you want the barrel to be... If you want an 8-10" barrel, for example, then the SDP would not work for your project. ;)

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by jonj313 on Mon May 27, 2013 11:24 pm

Good pt... as far as the kriss goes it was truly ment to be a 5.5" smg so... sbr being the next best thing unless I obtain my own SOT ... on the other hand any Ar platform shortel then 10.5" wouldn't b tactically worth it 2 me (just my opinion through experience) ...ps didn't know what a xcr was b4 I read ur post ... badass
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Aeromat209 on Mon May 27, 2013 11:30 pm

Thanks for the input guys!
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Aeromat209 on Wed May 29, 2013 11:52 pm

Decided to do the pistol instead of the Carbine . Kriss said it is easier to add the folder . If they do it they charge 318. With a carbine to change to a SBR they charge 500 . Got a SDP incoming Boojah!!!!!
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by jonj313 on Thu May 30, 2013 12:05 am

Boojah indeed .. good choice... like u told jedi any future sbr will def be pistols b4hand
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by MadDogDan on Thu May 30, 2013 5:06 pm

Aeromat209:

Technically once your Form1 has a tax stamp on it then your SDP is considered an SBR regardless if you have the stock on it or not. That means you will need a class III dealer to transfer/send it to Kriss I believe on a Form3 (tax free) but still a pain in the ass. You as an individual cannot send a Class III item back to the manufacturer or anywhere else without a BATFE transfer for the stock conversion. If you live close to Kriss you could always take it there yourself with your Form1 in hand. If you install the stock yourself then it can stay at home.

Just thought you should know,
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by KLIND on Fri May 31, 2013 12:21 pm

Aeromat209:

Technically once your Form1 has a tax stamp on it then your SDP is considered an SBR regardless if you have the stock on it or not. That means you will need a class III dealer to transfer/send it to Kriss I believe on a Form3 (tax free) but still a pain in the ass. You as an individual cannot send a Class III item back to the manufacturer or anywhere else without a BATFE transfer for the stock conversion. If you live close to Kriss you could always take it there yourself with your Form1 in hand. If you install the stock yourself then it can stay at home.

Just thought you should know,
MadDog


Since when???
There is no form to send a CIII weapon to a gunsmith for work. There use to be a form 5 but that was stopped in the 9.A form 3 is for transferring a weapon between dealers.AS far as mailing a NFA weapon you can use Fed-Ex,but the best and safest way is to use US Mail registered and for that you need a dealer if it a sub gun or AOW due to size,if its a long gun (M-16) you can do it yourself.I have mailed my M-16 to be refinished myself,but needed my dealer to mail my Uzi both however were mailed directly back to me since I already owned them.The m-16 was mailed in June of97 and the Uzi August of 12
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by KLIND on Fri May 31, 2013 12:26 pm

Plus I forgot when I form-1 my MP-5 clone in 2003 I filled out the form-1 and when it came back approved I mailed a bare receiver and MP-5 parts kit to Jason Cotter of investment Grade Firearms to be built .He then mailed the completed firearm back to me.

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by MadDogDan on Fri May 31, 2013 1:50 pm

All I know is what I have personally been told by BATFE in the past. You are correct that a Form3 is for dealer to dealer but "they" told me I had to have a class III "dealer" do the shipping (as in you hand the item to the local class III dealer and he transfers it to the out of state class III manufacturer or 07/SOT or whatever they call themselves these days). Not sure if the information "they" gave me is correct but that is what I went buy.

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by KLIND on Fri May 31, 2013 7:04 pm

This is way talking to ATF makes you want bang your head against the wall. You do and don't need a form-5 for repair.Both of the times I sent my guns I did not get a form-5 since both gunsmiths did not want one and gave me turn around time of 3 weeks
Below is what I found on the Internet for what it's worth


Yup, they often are conflicting. But remember that the NFA handbook is the first draft of a general guide and contains many errors -- and even when it's fully corrected, it is a guide, not a lawbook.

This press release was posted in the "breaking news" section of atf's web site in 2000; as a "breaking news" announcement the link expired due to age, but the policy has not been revoked AFAIK:

Originally from http://www.atf.treas.gov/breakingnews/021800nfarepair.htm

February 18, 2000

The National Firearms Act (NFA) Branch has received numerous questions
concerning the repair of NFA firearms.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) does not consider the
temporary conveyance of an NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repair to be a
"transfer" under the terms of the NFA. Thus, an ATF Form 5 application
is not required.

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT OTHER DISPOSITIONS, SUCH AS DEMONSTRATION OR SALE,
ARE TRANSFERS AS DEFINED IN THE NFA AND MUST BE COVERED BY AN APPROVED
APPLICATION TO TRANSFER AND REGISTER. TRANSFERS WITHOUT APPROVAL ARE
VIOLATIONS OF FEDERAL LAW. ANY FIREARM INVOLVED IS SUBJECT TO SEIZURE
AND FORFEITURE AND THE PARTIES TO THE TRANSFER ARE SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL
PENALTIES OF UP TO 10 YEARS IMPRISONMENT.

In order to avoid any appearance that a transfer has taken place, ATF
strongly recommends that a Form 5 application be submitted for approval
prior to conveying the firearm for repair. ATF believes this will
provide protection to the parties involved as it will document the
repair of the firearm and help ensure that a "transfer" did not take
place. In addition, an approved Form 5 will assist Federal firearms
licensees in establishing that their possession of the firearm is
lawful.

Accordingly, Item I5 in the "Questions and Answers" section of ATF
Publication 5300.4, Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide 2000,
suggests that the owner obtain permission for the "transfer" of the NFA
firearm by submitting a Form 5 application and that the gunsmith do the
same for the return of the firearm.

Federal firearms licensees must record the acquisition and disposition
of the firearm as required by Part 179, Title 27, Code of Federal
Regulations.

Edited to add: Now, this is a perfect example of bureaucratic doublespeak: BATFE is saying, in effect, that a Form 5 is not required for fast-turnaround repairs ... but that if lack of a Form 5 leads to problems, "Well, we warned you."

The above policy anouncement came in response to requests from refinishers who generally turn around guns in less than a week. It was a PITA for both the gunsmiths and their customers to file a Form 5, wait a month for approval, do the work in three days, then wait another month for a second Form 5 to return it to the customer. And it also created a ton of extra paperwork for BATFE examiners.

The "no-5-for-fast-turnaround-projects" policy helped gunsmiths, customers and BATFE workloads.

OTOH, there are always those cases where a simple refinish on an obscure MG leads to discovery of hidden damage; it may take the owner and/or the gunsmith months to locate replacement parts, and the NFA item winds up in the gunsmith's inventory for far longer than anyone expected. In cases like this a Form 5 protects both the owner and the gunsmith, and this possibility should be assessed before deciding whether or not to use a Form 5.

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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by Kiptroloxe on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:35 am

lots of good BATFE info there...

You could always apply for a stamp form 1 and then do the conversion yourself, thus avoiding the transfer back and forth with all the confusing paperwork and time. The info for the conversion is all provided by this KRISS community forum.
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Re: Which Kriss to buy for SBR project?

Post by jonj313 on Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:42 am

I would go with kip on this 1
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