2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

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2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by kopyking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:19 pm

Purchased my CA CRB Kriss a little over a month ago and have made unhappy range trips. Seems my Kriss likes to FTF on the second to last round. I have three mags, one that came with the Kriss and two brand new ones that I purchased online. All 3 are gen 4 mags. Tried to research the issue online but only found one topic on it and it seems to be a magazine issue, which I totally agree on. 

Kriss CRB Feeding Issue

Seems on the second to last round the magazine ramp is either getting stuck or the ramp is tilting at some weird angle and the round is getting jammed between the feeding ramp and bolt. Totally denting the bullet and pushing it into the casing further.  Far left is a normal round the rest are all damaged. 




So I did what Sevengun did in his little write up and will have to see what happens on the next trip. Also, anyone else experience anything like this?

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by kopyking on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:25 pm

Forgot to mention that no matter how much I load into the magazine it always does it on the second to last round. Whether it's only 4, 7, or 10, it's just darn frustrating.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Indysbr on Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:18 pm

Wow never seen the bullets being pushed back that way. You probably already know this but don't shot any of those rounds now. The C.O.L. is way to tight now, those rounds will cause to much pressure and might explode your weapon.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Solscud007 on Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:09 pm

WOW crazy. Never seen that before.

I would cotact KRISS USA. Also you might want to try getting or borrowing a 3rd gen mag?

I have had issues with Gen4 mags but that is only one out of 3 that has some issues with the mag catch.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by kopyking on Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:08 pm

Ordered a G21 Gen3 mag, it'll be here by the end of the week. I'll see how that goes, then I'll contact KRISS USA if I'm still having problems.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by CarlWinslo on Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:29 pm

That is crazy, those rounds are smurfed up. hopefully you get it figured out.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Indysbr on Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:31 pm

I had issues with my gen4 mag with FTF but not the bullet issue. Gen3 mags have been great in mine hopefully that fixes your issue as well.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by djb0x45 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:12 pm

Interesting:
I'm using all replaced mags from a GSSF match where my G21 was having feeding issues (they replaced 7 mags free of charge Smile and with high cap from the 10 rounders I was having issues with).

no problems yet.

Video age: Take out your phone / camera and video tape the issue happening in real time.  always helps support.
1. manually inspect everything: make sure it all went together w/o issues (Im sure you did this but just mentioning)
2. (not that I work for FrogLube) but honestly FL that baby (bath it and heat soak it) you would not believe how much better everything cycled compared to the stock oiling I got.  I could barely cycle back the charging handle it was so stiff.  afterwards I can use 2 fingers to charge now. 

3. which kriss probably will say what desert eagle told me when I had ftf/stovepipes and fte on my 1911 - use the expensive hornady .45 acp rounds.  yah a box will cost you but just see, do you have an issue?  if not, then you have to look at the rounds, if you do with the big name (known good rounds) you can show kriss you did your part to make sure you tried everything.
3.a ask the armorer at your range if they have a brand new glock 21 mag they can let you try just to troubleshoot
4. video tape everything.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by djb0x45 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:03 pm

I appear to have spoken to soon. 

Just happened, and like you on the second to last round.  only one out of 100 rounds this afternoon.
It looked like a double feed  and this one was rammed in at a 45* angle but there was no round in the chamber.  Kind of like it tried to feed and went / instead of /--- .  I had to drop the magazine as it would not eject or let me pull the charging handle back until I did, then it would let me charge it back, and the round fell out the bottom.



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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by djb0x45 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:05 pm

btw: this wasn't top shelf ammo either, just typical bulk ammo but also not reloads either.  guess I'll stick to the ppu or better when shooting the kriss, and use this stuff for the glock.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by djb0x45 on Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:13 pm

oh, I used that same mag at least 5 times with only 1 failure.  same shooting (nothing fast, nothing slow, just steady firing)

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by kopyking on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:36 am

I finally got my Gen3 mags in but didn't have a chance to go to the range yet. Well not true, I did go to the range but took my 2 new AR's that I built for the first time and tested them out. Boy that was fun and a different story. 

I'll see if I can go some time this week. I did break everything down, cleaned, polished the feed ramp, reassembled and left the bolt open. Still trying to get that spring to loosen up a bit.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Solscud007 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:15 am

Yeah video your experience. I am a big fan of videoing myself. Not that I am vain but I gain a LOT of information. I am so busy focusing on trigger press, my grip, and sight picture that i cant pay attention to everything that goes wrong. Especially in competition, I am trying to shoot all targets as fast as possible.

Make sure you dont just record behind you. If you can put a camera to the side and in front. Then you get more information.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TexasEagle on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:24 pm

I've got the same problem, but the failure to feed is intermittent an happens with all my mags. I've got 3 mags, the one that came with the gun and 2 extended mags I bought from Kriss. All mags are gen 4. This failure has occurred with Speer Lawman 230gr ball and Independence 230gr ball, and happens about 2% - 5% of the time. The bullet gets dented and compressed into the casing. Sometimes the round stovepipes at 45 degrees, sometimes at 90 degrees. I first chalked it up to the gun needing to be broken in, but I've got 400+ rounds through it and this still occurs. Anybody found a solution? Should I just keep shooting and hope it irons itself out?

Also, I've noticed that each spent casing has a dent in the lip. I assume this happens when the casing hits the ejection port. Is this normal?

90 degree stovepipe:


Compressed and dented bullets (normal cartridge on the right for comparison):


Spent casings with dented lips:

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Aeromat209 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:24 am

I have put 500 rounds of reloaded 230 gr TMJ brass cased from Ten-X at 380 for 1000 rds and not a single malfunction using Glock Fac 13 rd mags and the extended 25 round mags and some extended mags were ones I made into the extended mags from new Glock factory 21 mags . Cleaned and lubed with Frog lube after each of three trips . Hope you can figure out the problem !
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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TexasEagle on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:58 pm

I may try the Froglube. Are your spent casings dented?

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by Aeromat209 on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:16 pm

Nope except for the ones I stepped on acciDently!
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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TexasEagle on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:29 pm

Hmmm. I'm planning on sending pics and description of the issue to Kriss tomorrow. We'll see if I end up having to send it in.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TwigPig on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:13 am

Put crap ammo in, get crap results out.
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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TexasEagle on Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:34 pm

TwigPig wrote:Put crap ammo in, get crap results out.


Ummm... So Speer Lawman TMJ 230gr is crap ammo!? Same issues with Lawman - dented casings and stovepipes. This exact ammo is has been "tested and certified" according to the Kriss website - http://www.kriss-usa.com/compatible-ammunition

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by djb0x45 on Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:06 pm

Yes, I am getting dented ammo.
I am not using crap ammo or reloads.
I've had hit and miss depending, today 3 FTF with dented rounds jammed in pretty good.

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Finally running perfect

Post by kopyking on Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:51 pm

Well I finally got a chance to go to the range and it was great. Turns out it was the ammo and me not oiling the slider assembly enough. Turns out one of the range masters had one that was having the same problems plus some. Anyways, the ammo I purchased back during Xmas was the problem.

So the range master showed me the spots to oil and gave me a box of Winchester 45 Auto 230 GR. FMJ #Q4170 and the rifle worked flawlessly. Once I was done with that I even ran the ammo from the range which is supplied by CAL-AMMO and that worked perfect too. The minute I loaded my ammo I was having problems again and I also noticed that it was a lot dirtier.

The Range master also said that the hotter loads run even better in the KRISS, cause it was designed as a full auto SMG, it can take it. I tested it with Gen 3 and Gen 4 mags, fully loaded, only 3 rds loads, or 6 rds loaded. What a relief, I thought I purchased a total lemon. He also mentioned once he hit around 500 rds through his it was flawless each time.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TheStalker on Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:31 am

Most of my KRISS brass looks like that, but I am not having any malfunctions. I use Glock Factory 13 rounders and KRISS 25+ rounders. I run WWB, Fiocchi, Speer, Freedom Munitions, PMC, S&B, UMC, Federal, Golden Sabers all in 230 grain and no malfunctions. I run FIREClean for lube.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TexasEagle on Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:42 am

I talked to one of the 'smiths at Kriss and he asked me to send in my mags (which I have done). I picked up a gen3 mag and will see if that solves it while I'm waiting to get new mags back from Kriss. If replacement mags don't fix it, my carbine will go back to the mother ship. Also, the 'smith said the dented casings are normal and as I suspected is caused when the spent casing impacts the ejection port upon extraction. I'll post an update when I know more.

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Re: 2 unhappy range trips with FTF's.....

Post by TwigPig on Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:25 am

Dented casings due to ejection port. Happens to all of em. It a Kriss signature on spent brass! Love it.
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