Failure to Feed second to last round.

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Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by sullivanmedia on Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:50 pm

So today I had my new Kriss on the range for the 3rd time ever. I purchased it brand new a month ago. Firsts two times at the range everything was great. Today the gun started to do something crazy. The second to last round in the 10 round mags started standing on end in the mag and jamming the action.wtf  Alway the second to last round. I loaded just 3 round and it did the same thing, the second round jammed. In the process it smashes the round in to the case and dents both. These mags are new 10 round cal legal mags that came with my California Kriss. (I live in California so larger mags are unfortunately out of the question.) I think the mags are in need of cleaning, which they will get tonight.

Has anyone ever experienced anything like this??





Its kind of a real bummer for such an expensive gun to act up. Sad

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by AZ2000 on Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:19 am

For me it has only been on some of my home loads if there is no crimp on the, or necks not tight enough. Seems like the rounds on the bottom of my mag were moving when firing and caused them to shorten up from the impact inside the mag?

What kind of ammo are you shooting, could be a bad batch especially the way they are pumping them out. If you have a kinetic bullet puller, (hammer) you can put one or two in and tap and see if there is a big difference in the amount of force it takes to cause the bullet to come apart. If they are coming out easy, neck may not be tight enough to hold them when they are shaking in the mag? Then buy some other factory brand and try a couple of those to compare. Hope this helps.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by sullivanmedia on Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:39 pm

I don't really think that its the ammo given that its always the second to last round. Doesn't mater how many rounds are in the mag always the sec to last. With only 3 rounds in the mag it will still do it on the second round, 1 round one fires fine 2 jams clear it and feeds.

I know I am not running Kriss approved ammo but come on. I am running LAX ammo and have had no problems with there ammo on any other gun. I know this thing is picky but I had hear that had more to do with cycling the action then anything, is that true?

Next I am going to do a really good cleaning of the mags and the gun and have another go at it.

Thanks got the reply AZ2000

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by sullivanmedia on Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:02 am

So I don't know what was causing the problem but its gone. I cleaned the mags and took it to the range 3 more times. It had the exact same failure after about 40 rounds in and hasn't done it again in over 300 rounds. So I hope it was just some dirty mags.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by DUKnCVR on Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:58 pm

I had the same issue but it was a Korean mag. Trashed the mag problem solved. You issue did sound like some type of gunk was in the mag. Glad it's working now for ya.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by bluonyx on Sat Nov 16, 2013 8:12 pm

Had the same problem with mine and it was with LAX Ammo also. Stuff seems to run fine in my glocks and 1911 but when it comes to the Kriss, no way. Mentioned it the rangemaster and he told me to buy their reloads (which he said tend to run hotter than typical reloads) and/or new fresh ammo. So I said ok why not, cleaned the mags and bought 100rds of their reloads, not a single FTF.

So I figured I'd try LAX again, second to last round FTF.Shocked  So now I buy the ranges reloads, and at $16.99 per 50rds it's not that bad. It could have been the mags to but I tried them in my G30 also and no FTF's. I just think the Kriss likes +P ammo cause it was meant to be full auto anyways. I'm sure it can handle it.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by jgianoli1 on Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:16 am

I'm having the exact same problem. If i was to take a picture it would look just like yours. I too am using Lax ammo. I've replaced the mag with a factory glock mag and it didnt help. I'm going to try the factory ammo next.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:43 am

Yeah, my new Kriss was doing the same thing, though not always on the second to last round.  Multiple types of (recommended) ammo, multiple Glock 10-round mags.  Cartridges would lodge vertically between the bolt and barrel and the bullet would get pushed in.

Lubing the crap out of it and running it wet seemed to help a bit, but still had issues.  Also, the bolt frequently wasn't locking back at the end of a magazine.

Fortunately Kriss customer support seems pretty good.  The carbine's back with them now, will let you know if they fix it and what they find.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by SoCal Gunner on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Damn, That's ONE of the styles of failures I had and forgot to list it. It was as if the round did not fully chamber and the bolt closed on it. It would leave the nick-mark in the copper nose of the round where it tried to slam it home.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by jerryp on Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:58 am

gubi wrote:Yeah, my new Kriss was doing the same thing, though not always on the second to last round.  Multiple types of (recommended) ammo, multiple Glock 10-round mags.  Cartridges would lodge vertically between the bolt and barrel and the bullet would get pushed in.

Lubing the crap out of it and running it wet seemed to help a bit, but still had issues.  Also, the bolt frequently wasn't locking back at the end of a magazine.

Fortunately Kriss customer support seems pretty good.  The carbine's back with them now, will let you know if they fix it and what they find.
I'm having the *exact* same issue with a CA-compliant CRB.  Three different 10 round glock 21 mags (1 was new with gun, other two new at same time from different source).

Using recommended ammo (as well as other brands).  Always second to last round fails to feed.  Mags are marked and it occurs with all of them, just not every time.  I never have got more than 38 consecutive rounds through without it occurring.  At over 600 rounds to date - pretty frustrating.   When it is working though the gun is wonderful and if I can solve this it will be my favorite..

Kriss support asked me to ship it in but before I do wanted to hear if anyone had their issue solved by Kriss (or through some other means).  Loading up/breaking in mags, adding +10% wolff springs, running extra wet, running extra dry, etc has not yielded any success.  Only real pattern I've noticed is that the first (any) two or three mags of the day always seem to feed 100% then after she warms up the failures start kicking in..  Always second to last round, regardless of how many rounds I start with, and looks like pic above in thread.

Any additional thoughts, results of sending in, or technical advice appreciated.

Thanks!

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:08 am

I pinged Kriss for an update. Turns out Victoria isn't there anymore, which is a shame because she was very helpful.

Anyway, they're apparently running 9-10 weeks for repairs, which would put me on track for getting mine back end of January. So I don't know what they've found yet.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by jerryp on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:29 pm

Thanks for your update gubi.  9-10 weeks = ouch.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:04 am

One thing I forgot to mention is that mine is also a CA-compliant CRB. This may be a California specific problem.

Reason I say that is that I had another issue where the mags weren't dropping free when the release was depressed. When I wrote Kriss about this, they said that this was intentional on the California models to prevent misfeed problems with the 10-round mag, which didn't make any sense to me but whatever. So the issue may be something to do with the mag release interaction with the 10-rounders, or just the 10-rounders themselves.

Anyway, when I get mine back (hopefully next month) I'll update.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by mhemling33 on Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:37 am

mine is doing the same thing it is really annoying.... i found this article abut the 25 round mags that doing the same thing and what was recommended to fix it.

I talked with another Kriss Vector owner who recommended storing the magazines fully loaded to loosen up the spring a little bit. I’m giving it a shot, but don’t think that will do it. The local indoor range allows shooters to use pistol caliber carbines, so I’ll be heading over there again soon.

**Update 5-29
All mags working great at my last range trip. Ran all 4 mags 3 times each and didn’t have a single issue. I guess loosening the springs did the trick.

http://sevengun.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/kriss-vector-magex-25-magazine-feed-issue/

Anyone else hear of this?

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:47 pm

Update: my CRB "failed the initial firing test and is currently waiting for replacement parts" at the factory. So something was apparently broken. Will post if I find out the details and when I get the carbine back.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by bluonyx on Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:55 am

Went to the range today and I knew it was going to jam on the second to last round but it doesn't matter, cause I purchased 500 rds of this particular ammo, So I gotta use it. And just as I thought it jammed every second to last round.

Just to be sure, I purchased a bag of range ammo to test and worked perfectly, all 50 rds "a okay". So now I definitely believe it's the ammo for my CRB.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by jerryp on Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:41 am

Just wanted to add an update, although no actual closure yet for me on this issue.

I had begun to suspect the 10 rd mags to be at play here - as that has been a theme of many other people who see this and I'm using new on-list ammo (lawman TMJ 230) and have tried several others with same result so I doubt that it's the ammo.  I decided to swap out the springs for +10% power springs - no better - I could still never get more than 38 rounds through without issue.  To be clear I get 8, 18, 28 or 38 rounds through before a jam - since the jam is always on the 9th round of any given 10 round mag.  I either fire all 10 rounds successfully or get a jam on the 9th (or second to last if I under-load the mag). 

So I decided to try 13 round mags and to my delight I managed to put ~120 rounds through the 13 rounders (60 rounds each through 2 different brand new 13 rounders).  Based on this success I decided to work my other four 10 round mags that normally fail into the mix and to my surprise they ALL worked perfectly now.  Put total 270 rounds through on that day, and then another 250 or so through the next trip.  zero failures from any mags - 10's with regular springs, 10's with wolff springs, or regular 13's.  These are all Glock factory mags by the way.

Now with over 500 continuous jam-free rounds of the lawman TMJ through the CRB without issue I had declared the issue solved (though not sure how).  I noticed a very minor variance in the 10 round and 13 rounds external mag dimensions, thought it is subtle - I was wondering if maybe using the 13 rounders had somehow helped seat or adjust something that was out of tolerance.

I took the gun home and cleaned it and it sat in its case for a couple weeks until I headed back to the range..  

On my next trip - the issue is back Sad.  I had 3 'round 9 jams' over the course of 15 ten round mags (3 jams out of 150 rounds).. so better odds than the original issue but no where near the joy I experienced after two flawless sessions prior.  I did not test the 13 rounders again on this trip since I had brought the last of the lawman ammo with me and was now out.

The only two things that changed between the successful 500+ rounds and the not-so-successful 150 rounds was that 1) when the CRB was flawless I was indoors and when it failed I was outdoors (but at about same temp indoor/outdoors) and 2)  When the CRB was on its flawless 500 I had been shooting the gun dirty and all the trips with failures have been after a cleaning.  I'm currently on frog lube but I had seen the issues on traditional lubes prior to switching over as well.  When I say dirty I mean I had not cleaned it at all from the prior trip or two (150-250 rounds each trip) and had let it sit it its case.

Thoughts have crossed to possible over-lubing, or maybe it's just a coincidence.  I pull out the manual each time and follow the recommendations so I feel like i'm pretty much on track with the lube specs but who knows.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:27 pm

Well, I got mine back from Kriss last week, so took about ten weeks.  From the work report they just replaced the springs and polished the feed ramp.  I won't be able to test it for a couple of weeks but will report back with results.  

In the meantime I'm also keeping the mags loaded to try to break in the mag springs a bit, see if that helps per the earlier post.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by gubi on Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:03 am

Okay, ran a hundred rounds through it. The bolt lock back failure issue did not occur again, so that's good. I had one FTF on the second round in the mag, which is better than the previous performance so I guess that's an improvement.

I noticed that all three mags (10 round) I sent them had been opened and resealed. So maybe the springs they replaced weren't in the guns, they were in the mags? This may lend some credence to the issue being related to mag spring strength. I'm leaving the mags stored with rounds in them from now on and will keep testing.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by drowe26 on Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:31 am

I've had similar issues, also had a round breech due to feeding issue. I was pretty pissed after that and sent it to Kriss. They fixed everything and I think replaced my slide assembly. I haven't had any feeding issues since, although I haven't been out much (150-200 rds).

I just sent the CRB in again to replace with 5.5" SBR barrel. It took 3 months (13+ weeks) to get it back. :-( The work appears to be good every time, but there is a huge backlog I guess. Just got it back though, so I haven't put any rounds through it with the SB.

One thing I also noticed, I was using white box Winchester 45 ACP. It is EXTREMELY dirty ammo, so needed to be cleaned more often and thoroughly. Finally bought some recommended PNW Arms ammo.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by USCSCJOHN on Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:43 pm

I had this EXACT problem!  In fact, my description of the problem -- including astonishment about how the jam always occurred on the 2nd to last round, how that round would jam vertically mangling the bullet, etc -- is identical to yours to the point that I had to re-check your post to make sure I didn't post it in a drunken haze.  I too have a Kal-compliant Kriss.  I too suffered the "9th round jam" on more than half of every magazine through while using LAX ammo.  

Sadly, I kept cycling rounds, cleaning stuff, and oiling stuff until I solved the problem.  Or so I thought until I read this post.  My last "jam session" ended when I finished off the 500 box of LAX ammo and went home and repeated the cleaning/oiling ritual.  I returned to the range (with 100 rounds of Blazer; and 100 rounds of Winchester White Box), and was thrilled I had fixed the problem.  OK so I am not the gunsmith I thought I was but it looks like LAX Ammo -- a solid choice for the $ and for 1911s, the Glock 21, the S&W MP45, and the HK USC -- is a NO GO for the Kriss.

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by bluonyx on Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:05 pm

Yup LAX Ammo is definitely a no go with the Kriss.

Took it to the range again this last weekend and tried PPU, PMC and LAX (one more time). Only 50 rds of each. LAX and PPU jammed every 9th round. PMC went through all 50 with no problems.

So I'm going to go back next weekend cause I ordered, Federal, Winchester, Aguila and PMC ammo. Just 1 box of each, 50 rds. I'm pretty sure that PMC is good to go, but we'll see. Guess I'll just have to use all my LAX with my Glock.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by bluonyx on Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:19 am

Got to test out the different ammo today, Federal's had 3 FTF, Winchester's 4 FTF, PMC 0 FTF, and Aguila 0 FTF.

I'm going to order more Aguila and PMC, 3 boxes of each and see how it goes again.
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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by sullivanmedia on Thu May 15, 2014 11:39 pm

Update.

After switching to frog lube and trying all the ammo they recommended. I did what I should have done in the first place! I called kriss they said send it back. It took them 2 months or less to get it back to me. Now I have only gone threw 50 rounds (just got the gun and went right to the range) but this thing is so much better then it was. They polished the ramp replaced some parts and replaced the mags. It's strange I don't really know the details of what they did but I can as it just feels better. The trigger, recoil and even cycling the gun all feel smother. I hope this all lasts, If it does my my ar is going to be farthing a lot of dust.

So a big thank you to kriss for fixing this gun. I just wish it was like this when I got it new!

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

Post by sniiped on Fri May 16, 2014 5:45 am

it would be nice to know what was done. a tuned vector sounds like a winner

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Re: Failure to Feed second to last round.

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